AhlulBayt Islamic Mission

Long live Ayatullah Khamenei!!
This is what was exactly needed during this time of discord within the Islamic Republic.This will surely bring peace back to the Iranian nation.

Salaam

Ayatullah Khameini is the true leader of our time...His speech has made separate Black and White..He is not in the Grey area..
May Allah protect him..May Allah give him long live..

It seems this site if filled with Shia people who are still enamored witht the romantic view of Waliaytul Faqih. Ayatollah Khamenei (I refuse to call anyone "Supreme Leader") was elevated from the position of Hujjatol Islam to "Supreme Leader" overnight after the passing of Ayatollah Khoemeini. By the way, Hujjatol islam is the same rank that Muqtada Sadr currently holds. Imagine him becoming a "Supreme Leader" overnight! It is shame people cannot see that Iran looks out for Iran's interests...the days of Ayatollah Khomeini's pan-Islamic perspective are a thing of the past. You can continue with your accolades but millions Iranians who support the Revolution do not agree with you. And one of them is Grand Ayatollah Montazeri, the rightful successor of Ayatollah Khomeini currently under house arrest. I will not get into the many who question Ayatollah Khamenei's religious credentials to compared to Ayatollah Sistani and other renowed Islamic jurisprudants. If only you could see what a disaster Ahmadinejad has been for Iran. And Iranians are looking at this from an Iranian perspective, so it might be a good idea to let go of your romantic ideas of the Revolution and recognize that regular people care about the economy, jobs, employement. Not slogans.

and real momins care about paving the way for Imam Mahdi (aj) not about getting rich....Imam Ali (as) and all of our imams as well as our prophet (saws0 taught us that there is no shame in living what many may call a "poor life". I'd rather exist day to day and know i did my part for awaiting His return than have a job and feed my family fat meals.........


May Allah protect our Supreme Leader
'

Your "Supreme Leader" is not my supreme leader. Unemployed, and hungry Iranians would disagree with your slogans and adulation for your "Supreme Leader". I guess "real momins" are only those who support your point of view. What a pathetic and childish comment. Grow up and stop questioning people's faith. These are political issues we are talking about.

Anonymous Shia, well what is the problem then since you do not recognise him as the Supreme Leader or his creditionals but many others do including the personnel you stated in your post Ayatollah Sistani as well as millions of Iranians of many whom were present in the Friday Sermon today. Surely if they really did not believe in the system or the creditionals of the Leader they would not have supported him today. Your problem is your problem do not extend it to others while you preach others not to question people's faith then you fall in the same trap. As for Montazeri, you can believe in him being rightful by blinding yourself to the fact of his dismissal by Imam Khomeini himself.

Iran does not equal to Tehran. While the people in Tehran might not support Ahmedinijad there are many all over the country who do. You are talking about economy, jobs and employment then how about you look further into that and stop beating the same slogans as that of the Western media. How about you carefully analyze the domestic policies of the President in the last term and then be critical. You talk about hungry Iranians, where were you when the poor rural area Iranians were left to rot by the Reformist? Today those poor Iranians are much better off one has to ask really then whether you have your facts straight or not.

Kerbala: I do not believe Ayatollah Sistani recognizes the concept of Waliyatul Faqih. Inshallah I will find further references but here is one Second, of a certainty Ayatollah Sistani did not attend the Friday prayers in Tehran. Also, I am not sure if there were "millions" at the Friday prayer sermon...that seems like a bit of an exaggeration but they did bus people in to chant slogans.

Next, I do not have any problems. . I find it absolutely ridiculous that anyone would question someone else being a "momin" based on his opinion on Waliyatul Faqih. I hope you too are not going to throw around such loose accusations regarding people's faith based on belief in a political concept.

I do have my facts quite straight. And I know if Ahmadinejad won be 20 million votes, why the need to throw a few reform minded people in jail, especially Yazdi when in hospital! Regardless of your opinion, Ayatollah Montazeri and Ayatollah Sinai are not small names, nor unqualified to comment (maybe you do not believe they are "momins" through).

Waliaytul Faqih is Iranian political ideology, which to me has little relevance and are disputed by reputable maraja throughout the Shia world. If you disagree with that, at least agree calling oneself a Muslim or Shia does not depend on it. Unfortunately, you still hold the romantic view of the Iranian leadership speaking for all Shia b/c they are Shia-majority counry. I humbly suggest you join us in the present day.

Anonymous Shia, the point was not about recognition rather how you stated that his religious creditionals cannot be compared to that of other scholars namely Ayatollah Sistani. Moreover, read again what I stated 'Millions of Iranians of whom MANY were present at the Friday Sermon'. Ofcourse expecting Ayatollah Sistani to turn up is beyond logic since he lives in Iraq.

I never mentioned the dispute regarding the faith of someone rather I mentioned it about your own issue that you stated in your first comment read above please. Ayatollah Montazeri has been bitter since being stripped of the successorship and his adalat is flawed. Being big names does not guarantee anything, are you suggesting it is okay for someone to defend a known murderer and still claim to be perfect in his adalat? When the adalat is questioned it throws whole character into disarray. As for Ayatollah Saanei, he has not called the Presidency of Ahmedinijad illegitmate rather he supports Mousavi. Okay good for him, Ayatollah Jannati and Ayatollah Mesbah Yazdi, both of whom are big names, support Ahmedinijad. You can bring names so can I, there is plenty. Lets move beyond personalities since they are of no bearence.

The reformist figures have been arrested for instigating riots and violence. Why do you fail to address the issue regarding Rafsanjani's wife calling for riots? Or for that matter the other reformists? Is rioting the right way to express a difference of opinion?

I would choose a country which holds dear the Islamic System of Governance over any other form of Governance anyday. My view is not romantic rather logical. You are welcome to have your secular or any other idea of Governance and implement it as you wish and where you wish. Iran adopted for that and they are welcome to that and many Shias across the globe turn to Iran and the Wilayatul Faqee and they are happy with that. Lastly, while Wilayatul Faqee al Mutlaqa is disputed but majority of the Ulemas in this day and age believe in it. Even some of the maraje of Najaf believe in this.

Karbala: It is the position of people on your side that it is the "media" that has somehow distorted the picture in Iran. Therefore it is completely relevant that I bring names of scholars in Iran (Ayatollah Montazari is a Grand Ayatollah by the way...sorry, I respect his title much more than you questioning his adalat). Mr. Yazdi was not calling for riots. He was arrested in hospital. Unfortuantely the basijis have been acting in no different a manner than the Saudi religious police. Protests in Iran so far have been peaceful (with the exception of basijis shooting at them). I have not heard of the "riots" that you mention. They are calling Allahu Akbar from the rooftops -- do you find that threatening? Rioting...Unbelievalbe. I believe it is you who is getting carried away with the words of Iran's media. I am not sure who you mean when you say "we". I will say millions (not an exaggerated #) follow Ayatollah Sistani, and tends of thousands (not an exaggerated #) follow Ayatollah Fadlallah, among others....are they not true adherents to a religious system because they do not follow Ayatollah Khamenei in matters of religion? Thank you for acknowledging that Waliyatul Faqihs is disputed by the majority of ulema. Alas, at least on AIM, this may be a minority position, but not in the Jafari Islamic world. Thanks for your civil correspondence ... maybe tell some of your colleagues not to question whether one is "momin" or not based on their belief in the concept of Waliyatul Faqih.

only a hit dog hollers...


my comment about real momins was about struggle and jihad....the reason why the economy got "worse" during ahmedinejad's term, if u wanna term it that way, is because he wasn't succumbing to the American's or taking much from them...he also cancelled alot of things and brought the country to what he believes to be the best way functional to allow for the reappearance of the Master of the Time (aj) ...how do u follow your Master (aj) without wilayat? please explain that to me....

in any case, the economy is bad, everywhere, so it would make sense that Iran would be affected as well...but to blame it all on Ahmedinejad?....being poverty stricken, jobless, hungry and with no home canbe a temporary state...if not, surely one shouldn't give up on a righteous leader because of it...the Yazids of this world are all too willing to step up and offer jobs, wealth and mansions instead...I suggest those who would rather live comfortably under taghut than struggle under the only legitimate system close to the one our Prophet (saws) institutued to move...after all, Allah's earth is spacious, alhamdullilah...

Yes, I believe Ahmadinejad saw Imam Mahdi (as) in a divine vision. Yeah, I believe that. What an apologist you are.
Yes, I enjoyed how Ahmadinejad spoke about the Holocaust in these economically troubled times...very relevant. Very topical. The Neo-cons and Israelis love him for this no doubt. God forbid there would be someone who doesn't shoot his mouth off and can take care of real problems. By your logic, Ayatollah Fadlallah and Sistani (among others) are not on the path of Imam Mahdi (as) because they don't agree with Waliyatul Faqih. What a childish, naive supposition you make. By the way, it is "want to" not "wanna" ---> talk about Western influence.

First, thank you to all that administer this site. Its good to see that some people are actively countering the cooked up spin that is being spewed around, these days.

Just a few comments to this 'Anonymous Shia'character who is an epitome of the School of Bandwagon and Spin that is increasingly becoming prominent amongst the less gifted, analytically.

I will start by quoting some shallow/hollow statements from his/her post, if we dont mind.

1. "Ayatollah Khamenei (I refuse to call anyone "Supreme Leader") was elevated from the position of Hujjatol Islam to "Supreme Leader" overnight after the passing of Ayatollah Khoemeini."

Question: Sorry, Anonymous Shia, were you may be, expecting a Royal Month Long "Initiation Ceremony" or perhaps, an "Internship" phase. Nobody, elevated anybody's status, Sayyed Khameini was "Undisputably Nominated" by the Late Imam Khomeini (RA) himself. Anyways, whats in the titles??If the Father of the Revolution, the Late Imam Khomeini, would have nominated anybody else, so, he would have been duly followed without question. (Whether Ayatollah, Hojattol Islam, Sayyed, Mawlana etc etc).

2. "It is shame people cannot see that Iran looks out for Iran's interests...the days of Ayatollah Khomeini's pan-Islamic perspective are a thing of the past". I must, must LOL at this Statement.

Please travel the world abit and be enlightened.....They say it is not good to blow one owns trumpets....so I will leave you with these honours. Try visiting the likes of Palestine, Afghanistan, Iraq, Bahrain, Lebanon, Comoros, South Africa, Uganda, Tanzania and and and ......all the way till you arrive in Bolivia, Paraguay, and of course Venezuela. Please start in Iraq though, because I particularly adore those from that Country,whom when they were completely roofless and hungry as well as being repressed by arguably the worst dictator in contemporary history, were assisted by the same Revolutionary Iran that they so disrespect, these days. I will not dare comment on the next statement, about a Pan Islamic Perspective being a thing of the past.....When reach reasonable standards of visibility particularly in Geo Strategics, perhaps we will discuss. I must comment however that having labelled yourself a 'Shia', please pay some credence to the imminent Government of Imam Mahdi (ATF) which will be TRANS GLOBAL, UNIVERSAL, if you would like and yes, it will be called, 'Islam'. Be very assured.

3. "You can continue with your accolades but millions Iranians who support the Revolution do not agree with you. And one of them is Grand Ayatollah Montazeri, the rightful successor of Ayatollah Khomeini currently under house arrest".

This statement particularly the first bit is completely 'Self Contradictory, or an 'Oxymoron' phrase if such a thing exists. The 'millions' who support the revolution, cannot turn around and disobey an instruction of the very essence of the revolution. The previous poster has shed light in this regard, Ayatollah Montazeri, your 'supposed' GRAND Ayatollah and whom you clearly consider as 'Rightful Successor' was SUSPENDED/DISQUALIFIED by Imam Khomeini (RA) himself in a written statement,documented. There is absolutely no mileage in discussing this aspect, it is inherently self contradicting and will only result in Superfictitous Corroborations. The reality is as it is.

4.With regards to Ahmedinejad, and what he has commendably achieved during his term, I will refer back to a previous statement in this post connected to Geo Strategics. One of the logical signs of progression, is when your enemies/imperialists openly engage in full time banter and an intensification of dehumanisation of you, then one should intensify their own efforts in the same direction, for they are definitely doing the right thing. The Iranian Nuclear case is a common example, for twenty years, different goverments engaged in unyeilding diplomatics with the West, they only managed to achieve one fantastic result: More Sanctions!!!!In the world of Politics if you engage your enemy in a sphere where it is the enemy that sets the Rules and Frameworks of engagement, then be very confident, that your humble efforts will result in a Nett Negative.

Perhaps, this requires abit more development as a point, particularly to those whose longsight struggles to surpass the longitudinal length of their nose.

5. A few factoids for you, to bring you to your senses..we can have objective discussions, first free yourself from Jingoistic Sentiments fuelled by news from the BBC, CNN et al. They are WMD's - Weapons of Mass Deception.

a) The Iranian economy is the only one that is projected to grow by about 5/6% this year in a Global Recession, which is DEFINITELY not Ahmedinejads doing, and in a region in which the economies of the neighbouring countries will actually shrink!!!
b) Please check out some facts about employment rates in Iran before passing unfounded comments, the employment rate in 2002 was between 15/16 percent, under the expert governance of the reformists who were only expert in promoting Mass Accumulation of Wealth for their Select Clubs at the expense of the common Iranian. By 2007, this figure had dropped to between 11/12%.
c) The biggest gain in Irans Exports in the last decade has been under the auspices of Ahmedinejad, Irans exports grew from 66 Billion in 2006 to 88 Billion in 2007 in USD.

6. Please speak/comment about any subject under the sun but not Islamic Concepts and certainly do not assume the mantle of being the voice for Sayyed Seestani (May Allah Protect Him). I am not aware of any Marja who does NOT believe in the 'CONCEPT' of Wilayatul Faqih, I know there are differences of opinion in the implementation of the concept. Anonymous Shia, please be very careful with the choice of English words you chose to employ. And by the way, this concept is not political its Islamic.

7. You seem to be prodigious in the Science of Superfictitious Concortions, in the application of your talent please excuse Mr Ahmedinejad, he only won by 11 Million Votes and NOT 20 Million as per your post. I understand, it is difficult dealing with Big numbers at times. You may wish to seek the assistance of POST REVOLUTION Mathematical students from Iran, particularly from Shariff University, who have time and again won GLOBAL MATHEMATICAL OLYMPIADS.

8. Lastly, they say, "Those who live in Glass Houses should not throw stones at others" - before, now venturing into yet another of your newly discovered talents, talents that have not ceased manifesting at an unparalleled rate never witnessed before by able minded human beings, please stop lecturing others in English Grammar, and refer back to your previous post in which you seem to have fantastically referenced perhaps the name of a mountain in history, Sinai, to a certain scholar, Ayatollah Saanae'i.

9. My teacher always used to advise me to listen to 'Ideas' not 'Sounds' in conversations.

Thank you and Good Luck

1. Cooked up spin is claiming Ahmadinejad won the Kurdish vote, the Azeri vote and the Persian vote equally, and remarkably by the same percentage, across all parts of Iran. That is cooked-up spin. Funny you say "what's with titles, and then go on to give one yoursel, "Father of the Revolution". How about we agree to call people by their names...Ayatollah Khamenei and Ayatollah Khomeini, just so we know who we are talking about. From a NYT article "In Iron, an Iron Cleric, Now Blinking"

"Ayatollah Khamenei was elevated from the middle clerical rank, hojatolislam, to ayatollah overnight in what was essentially a political rather than a religious decision. He earned undying scorn from many keepers of Shiite tradition, even though Iran’s myth-making machinery cranked up, with a witness professing he saw a light pass from Ayatollah Khomeini to Ayatollah Khamenei much the way the imams of centuries past were anointed. "

2. Iran has no doubt done charitable work throughout the Islamic world. However, it is naive to think that Iranians don't care about their own country, their own domestic problems, their own unemployment rate, their own inflation rate, and may want to act out of what benefits them most. How the Holocaust or gays in New York is relevant to anyone of that is beyond me. Perhaps you know.

3. Ayatollah is a Grand Ayatollah. This is a title accorded to him and he has more legitimacy to it then the innovation "Supreme Leader" as a title. Please give me the names of all the Supreme Leaders in the history of Islam (notice I am using this phrase specifically). We can all name many Grand Ayatollah's, living and dead. I want to know all the Supreme Leaders.

4. I am not referring to the nuclear issue, nor did I make mention of it. Iran has full right to develop a nuclear program based on their participation and inclusion in the NPT. I am talking about Ahmadinejad's other reckless statements, making him the favored candidate of all Neo-Cons and Zionists. They couldn't ask for a better spokesperson.

5.Factoids are pretend facts. Seems you got your definition wrong, or possibly right. When oil was $150 barrel, the immense revenues were completely mismanaged by Ahmadinejad. Since when did loyalty to the Islamic Republic become incumbent on supporting this guy? Is it beyond the realm of reason that Iranians MAY want a person who all agree guided the economy well during the Iran-Iraq war to now guide them? Is this treason? Your reflexive defense of the motor-mouth Ahmadinejad is so base, you have lost reason. Somtimes there are better stewards of the economy WHO ALSO SUPPORT the REVOLUTION. Do you think Mousavi is an Israeli puppet? Really, you make us all out to be simpletons. Again, if you asked who the neo-cons and the zionists prefer in office, they would Ahmadinejad. In fact, the head of Mossad already did!

6. Waliyatul Faqih may be acknowledged as a school of political thought but it is certainly NOT supported by Ayatollah Fadlallah, Montazeri or Sistani. I am not the spokesman of any of them, just stating their position. Investigate yourself if you like. By the way, what is your opinion of devout Muslims who follow these and other scholars as their majra? Have they betrayed the Revolution since they don't follow Khamenei? I will ask it more direct...is it incumbent as a Shia I must follow the "Supreme Leader" in all issues political and religious? And what about those who take guidance from others, like Ayat Fadlallah and Sistani? When I have a question, I go to Sistani's risallah. I have no interest in looking at others. I also believe Ayatollah Al-Kheoi did not endorse the concept of WF either.

7. Save your condescending tone. Karoubi got fewer votes than the people who worked in his campaign. Another remakrable sweep by Ahmadi (I bet the margin was 62-63% in Luristan like is was everywhere else in the country).

8. You are very wordy, but an apologist none the less. Sorry I "kinda" "forgotta" apostrophe. The ayatollah to whom you refer, and of the spelling of your choice, disputes the election results.

Fact: The majority of Shia ulema do not support Waliyatul Faqih. It is an Iranian innovation, to which a Grand Ayatollah in Iran, also disputes. The fact that one has to agree to this concept or agree that Ahmadinejad is the best candidate in Iran as a test of one's "committment to the Revolution" (or pick the slogan of your choice) is pathetic.

Anonymous Shia, you seem to be rather dexterious at word-juggling and jumping between positions.

Here's a few pointers for you:

1. Do not claim to respect Imam Khomeini and then hurl abuse at him, albeit indirectly, a few sentences later. It is what morally astute people call: hypocrisy. If you want to make a case, don't hide behind fancy words and just be up forth.

2. Have appreciation for facts. One of the classic strategies of propaganda is to throw tonnes of accusations at once, hence curtailing objective discussion on any raised issues. You have shown great skill at the above.

With resspect to the points you've raised above:

1. There is no EVIDENCE to suggest that the vote was rigged. It would be nice if that sunk in first, although it is quite unlikely that it will. One cannot claim something without evidence; if thus was the manner of humane conduct, I'd have reserved a few rather colourful accolades for you.

It's nice to see you take the NYT as a source. You may want to sound intelligent by doing so, but real scholarship does not involve citing newspapers (and even that, citation of one that is biased). But I shall remind you that the constitution of the Islamic Republic does not require the Wali Al-Faqih to be the most knowledgeable or even indeed a Marja. It is sufficient for one to be a mujtahid and meet the additional conditions.

2. You seem to have a very shallow mind in your understanding of politics. Iran certainly has its own interests. I should like to highlight here that interests are not monotonous; nor does it mean that pursuing one is necessarily to the detriment of others. Your mind obviously views these realities in mutually exclusive terms, and hence I'm not much surprised.

In any case, during the days of weakness, Imam Khomeini's support for Palestine was unquestionable. Do you in your rightful senses think that Iran would forgo this central goal when it has reached the power it has in our day?

Hizbullah is a mighty force in the equations of the Middle East today. It is a symbol of strength and power. Go and listen to the stories of Shias in Lebanon before the Eighties, perhaps you will know what the Islamic Revolution has done for Shias.

You are plainly ridiculous on that front, and I have a feeling you know it too.

4. Supreme Leader is an English phrase. It has no equivalent in Arabic. If you wish to know the usage of the Arabic words; the words Imam, Wali, Qaed are replete in history. Consult your local Sheikh.

5. Bring forward numbers and facts. You are the one who seem to be pulling off stuff 'from the hilt' as it were.

6. Kindly refer to the book: Shia Political Thought. It'd make your proffering more objective.

7. Did 400,000 people work in Karroubi's campaign?! That must be a first for a campaign team. If people had campaign teams of 400,000+ we would have had to start sending job adverts to space!!!

8. It would be good if you were to show some humility sometimes. The earlier user referred to your condescending tone with another poster. When you have made an error, own up and accept that you have and move on.

1. You quote the New York Times - that is a fantastic reference/source for anything connected to Iran and Islam in general. Next time I want research about South Korea, I will make a point of sourcing information from North Korean Media.

2. I did point out that it is logical to listen to ideas not sounds in my previous post. My point of emphasis was the "the Personal Nomination of Sayyed Khamenei" by the Late Imam Khomeini (RA), perhaps you got the wrong end of the stick. But, you dont seem to believe in Wilayatul Faqih anyways, No Problem. Nobody has FORCED anybody to accept Sayyed Khamenei as the Walie Faqih. This is a matter of choice, and the people of Iran, have a right to exercise this choice and to self determination. What is definitely unreasonable however, is to consider all that have adopted that path to be some form of psycho's.

3. Please dont reduce me to being the simpleton that you profess not to be. At no point, during my discourse, did I ever HINT directly or Indirectly, that the Iranian Society is not concerned about domestic issues, such as the economy, employment etc. These are again, your concortions, not mine.

4. You are beseeching from everyone 'Logic', but you dont mind incorporating in your argument a specific item (the issue of Gays) which was specifically discussed in a specific meeting after the president was asked a specific question. To then generalise this, as use it as a point of contention is itself not assistive.

5. I dont care and dont have space for what the Neo Cons and Zionists think, if we have reduced ourselves to such a low level, that now also have to consider for their well being, then seriously, we need help. You imply that, our next president should take into consideration how we project ourselves to the Neo Cons and Zionists. That is 'Victim Mentality' and if I may borrow from your words, being an 'apologist'.

6. By the way, Domestic and Foreign Policy in the Global world of today are ever being Interlinked in Governance. And Ahmedinejad as a president, needs to be proficient in both, like any other president.

7. You are using words and ideas that are alien to me, 'treason', 'Mousavi is an Israeli Puppet', Where did I suggest this in my post, please? You are introducing new dimensions with every post that you make.

8. By the way, just for extending your sphere in reasoning, I happen to be a Muqallid of Sayyed Seestani (May God Protect Him) and before that, Sayyed Abul Qasim al Khoei (May Allah Elevate his status).

9. Another empty bandwagon statement - "When oil was $150 barrel, the immense revenues were completely mismanaged by Ahmadinejad." I will not bother with this one. Mismanagement you say, who is it that sold the rights of Oil per barrel until 2014 at $14 dollars/barrel in the past?. If, Mismanagement, is devolving state funds from the Upper Class to the Poor and Remote Areas, then I support it. The Reformists themselves take pride of the fact that their support base is mainly the Middle and Upper Class in Iran, who constitute a very low component of Iranian Society.

10. Please give me an official number from Karroubi's Campaign Team. If it numbers 400,000, I will Fast for a week. InshAllah.

11. With regards to Wilayate Faqih, you definitely need to recheck your sources. The 'Concept' is widely accepted by the Majority of Marja's, including Ayatillah Saanae'i.

12. What is Pathetic, and is evident from your posts, is how you manage to tactfully interplay between the Revolution and the Concept. And also, I never for once correlated Presidential Candidacy with the Islamic Revolution. Again, you are now, SPINNING, even my words, in a public forum.!!!!

During the Islamic Revolution students who had occupied the Americam embassy and had defied a superpower. The enthusiasm aroused by the occupation also helped to ensure a large turnout for the referendum that was held on December 2 and 3 1979 to ratify the constitution that had been approved by the Assembly of Experts. Velayat-e-faqih was spelled out in full in Article 5.

Ayatollah Montazeri was a student of Imam Khomenini and had over the years executed counterrevolutionary activity including a son-in-law Mehdi Hashemi. He made far reaching criticisms of the Islamic Republic particularly with regard to judicial matters. On July 31, 1988 he wrote a letter to Imam Khomeini questioning what he regared as unjustified executions of members of the Sazman-e Mojahedin-e Khalq who were in Iranian prisons,after the organization from its base in Iraq had made a large scale incursion into Iranian territory. On March 28,1989 the Imam wrote to Montazeri accepting his resignation from the succession a resignation that under the circumstances he was compelled to offer.

Karbala: It is the position of people on your side that it is the "media" that has somehow distorted the picture in Iran. Therefore it is completely relevant that I bring names of scholars in Iran (Ayatollah Montazari is a Grand Ayatollah by the way...sorry, I respect his title much more than you questioning his adalat). Mr. Yazdi was not calling for riots. He was arrested in hospital. Unfortuantely the basijis have been acting in no different a manner than the Saudi religious police. Protests in Iran so far have been peaceful (with the exception of basijis shooting at them). I have not heard of the "riots" that you mention. They are calling Allahu Akbar from the rooftops -- do you find that threatening? Rioting...Unbelievalbe. I believe it is you who is getting carried away with the words of Iran's media. I am not sure who you mean when you say "we". I will say millions (not an exaggerated #) follow Ayatollah Sistani, and tends of thousands (not an exaggerated #) follow Ayatollah Fadlallah, among others....are they not true adherents to a religious system because they do not follow Ayatollah Khamenei in matters of religion? Thank you for acknowledging that Waliyatul Faqihs is disputed by the majority of ulema. Alas, at least on AIM, this may be a minority position, but not in the Jafari Islamic world. Thanks for your civil correspondence ... maybe tell some of your colleagues not to question whether one is "momin" or not based on their belief in the concept of Waliyatul Faqih.

Anonymous Shia: My my clutching at straws are we? Positiong of Media at my side? So lets see here, the people in the rural areas supported Ahmedinijad, something confirmed by Al Jazeera, I guess that is a media at my side too right? Or how about the independent analysis that conclude the same conclusion, I guess the Iranian Media bought all of them and told them to write that yea?

You can respect the title all you want but that shows a contradiction in your thought process, while you have an issue with the title of Supreme Leader yet you have no issues with the title of Grand Ayatollah for a person whos adalat is doubted. I have to ask whether your logic is sound or not given you are applying different rules to the same scenario in two situations.

Baseej shooting at them? That myth was first made up by BBC. There is no clear proof that it was the Baseej. Infact, from the sources on the ground during that day the Baseej were not even deployed. Furthermore, you might want to investigate further and then comment. BBC reported that the rally was called off by Mousavi due to rumours that the riot police and secret police have been armed with live rounds. After the rally went ahead, the U turn from BBC was remarkable; Shooting at the rally by the Baseejis. Without any proof that it was the Baseej they just assumed. While the PressTV, Al Jazeera and other media concluded that it was one person shooting and there was no indication that it was a Baseej hence inconclusive. One has to wonder if one can really disagree with Anonymous realist when he says that you believe in the product of spin stories. And do you deny the rioting on the Saturday after the elections? The fires to the buses and the motorcycles by the reformist protestors? I wonder what media you are following heck even BBC reported this. I guess this is peaceful protest in your dictionary right? Worthwhile to open it up again and have a good read of the meaning peaceful.

And why do you fail to address the crux of the matter regarding the protests which is simply that they have been deemed illegal by the Government due to the fact they are not given permission. So you are defending an illegal action by the people well good for you, I guess you are very law abiding then given you are defence.

Millions follow Ayatollah Khamenai too, I do not know how you are failing to pass such gross assumptions that the Global Shia Community does not emulate him. And maybe it would be worthwhile if you actually read the doctrine of Wilayatul Faqee, a maraje does not necessarily has to follow the Wilayatul Faqee in religious matter it relates to the socio-political matters. Many maraje in Iran do not follow Ayatollah Khamenai in the matters of religion but adhere to him in socio-political aspects. And thank you for being a spin master yourself, I stated while the doctrine is disputed majority of the Ulema believe in it ie the Wilayatul Faqee al Mutlaqa. I did not say it is disputed by the majority of the Ulemas please read carefully. And I wonder how did you conclude that Wilayatul Faqee is a minority aspect in the Jafari School of thought given the consensus.

Ciao!

1. Of course, you did nothing to dispute it. He did become ayatollah overnight. Just because someone is promoted from 6th grade to university does not make him qualified to be at univeresity. Also, Ahmadinejad's "vision" of the Mahdi is another fantastic story. Of course that is one is not based on eyewitness testimony, Ahmadinejad relayed it himself.

2. It is not that I don't accept Ayatollah Khamenei as Waliyatul Faqih, I do not accept the concept of it as a whole. And this has been met with a charge of not being a "momin". The doctrine of Waliyatul Faqih dictates that I must accept the designee as the person to follow. Is this logical? And what about those who chose to follow Ayatollah Sistani? Have they fallen outside the fold of Islam, or are somehow being swept away by the Western media? What about those who follow Fadlallah? Or Montazeri? Or anyone else who does not subscribe to the doctrine? Are they not "momin" as the previous poster implied? You said you follow Ayatollah Sistani. If you believe in the concept of WF you cannot go to him for your answers. It is the Supreme Leader who holds the key.

You know there is a crazy Saudi ulema named Adel Kalbani. He is one of the "imams" of the Grand Mosque...first African to hold that position. He said all Shia clergy are deviated, or heretics, or whatever the word he used...because they do not accept AbuBakr as the legitimate successor to the Prophet (s). The discussion here is similar...as if somehow people need to take an oath of allegiance to Ayatollah Khamenei and the IRI or their Islam is suspect. I am not allowed to question Ayatollah Khamenei? You know Ayatollah Fadlallah and Ayatollah Sistani differ in regards to moonsighting. If you chose to follow the former, for example, have you then betrayed Ayatollah Sistani? This need to Shia to reflexively assume and follow whatever comes out of Iran as gospel is very dangerous.

3. They are the Iranian people's concerns, and they have a right to express them without being considered being American stooges or under the direction of the CIA.

4. Conceded. His continuous mention of the Holocaust serves no useful purpose, however. Nor a conference in Iran of Holocaust-denies with racists like David Duke.

5. I can give you an official numer for his campaign if you would like. Reports are that it numbered less than the people who volunteered for him, and it was under 350,000. And he lost his hometown. He is Lur and lost his province as well. Strange that Ahmadi won by the same percentage across all regions of Iran. Grand Ayatollah Montazeri (why is still under arrest by the way? Can't he express himself without being considered a threat to the entire IRI?) even said as much.

AIM is hostile territory for those who cannot accept criticism of the Ayatollah Khamenei and Ahmadinejad. I assure you, I am not under the influence of the Western media. A pity and a real shame that any legitimate challenge, discussion or question of them is met with such hostility.

Sorry, I did not take the pledge of allegiance to the "Supreme Leader" and think Ahmadinejad is nothing more than a huge embarrassment. If this puts me outside the fold of Islam and AIM, so be it. I suppose I would be put under house arrest if the above two were in charge of the government!

Inshallah, I leave you in peace with the thought that followers of Ahlul Bait (as) have more in common with each other than they have differences. I hope you will accept this from me as a sincere statement and understand that I respectively differ with you, but do not question your Islam nor your love of the Prophet (s) and his noble Household. With best wishes, Khuda Hafiz/Wasalam. AS

1. Anonymous Shia, please my dear, you seem to be a hater of Ahmedinejad, just like you expect room to express your criticism, please also make equal space, for those who disagree with your views. For one, in every post you have made so far, you dynamically interplayed from issue to issue.

2. As I have articulately stated previously, you need to research very seriously on the very "Concept of Wilayatul Faqih". To make slanderous claims, that this is an Iranian Political Innovation, is an INSULT to many great Scholars from Najaf, all the way back to Jabal Aamel in Lebanon. I do not think that you are in a position to accept or not accept the Concept unless, you are a Mujtahid yourself.

3. Since your first post, you made the cardinal mistake, of assuming that you are discussing with some sort of Wilayate Fundamentalist, and have gone on an irrecoverable tangent. You are always drawing the discussion to areas that seems to be deep rooted in your mind, no body has naively questioned anybody's faith.

4. You may not think so, but if you are now criticising academic conferences aimed at disseminating certain no go areas in history, just because of the intellectual bullying imposed by some very criminal countries, then you need a wake up call. Look beyond the actions, the discussion of the Holocaust was always designed to TEST the hypocrisy of the elitist FREEDOM of SPEECH theory, and how FREE, FREE actually was for all.

5. My view of the unrest recently in Iran, is that the CIA is DEFINITELY INVOLVED. There are hundreds of published papers and reputable sources out there that have shed some light on the level of covert operations in Iran, since the Islamic Revolution. I will take you back to the fifties, people at the time thought they were genuinely pursuing their rightful aspirations as citizens, without realising the existence of dirty elements who had completely different objectives to theirs. I remember the days of Condi Rice looking for about 80 Million Dollars to facilitate anti government operations. She asked of this from the Senate.

6. Its funny how you complain of hostility, yet you have been allowed and will forever be allowed to express your opinion like you have. Just like you passionately disagree with the views of some commentators here, again, dont confine this privileged right to you, alone. Others also passionately disagree with your view. You have made some seriously 'loose' statements and it appears that your emotional allergy for the Practical (whatever personal issues yo have) has destroyed the Concept. This is exactly what is being done to Islam today. The infamous parallel - When a Muslim breaks the law, Islam Stands trial.

7. With regards to AIM's position, I hope the proficient individuals who are responsible for this organisation will respond to the last highlight. What I am sure of though, is that at least here in the UK, AIM is considered to be a very progressive and respectable organisation, that has broken up the age long disease of "Nationalism" to unite Muslims and Non Muslims whatever their background being to Universally accepted notions.

Anonymous Shia, here's a few final pointers for you:

1. I repeat what I said earlier. Have some respect for others, and be honest in your views. Don't play with words and assume facades to make a point. Learn to be up front. It'll help you in life.

2. You seem to be quite gifted at arguing with yourself. It would be nice if you learnt a few tips on how to engage in discussions.

3. Finally, it is almost always a give away when you sign out from an argument, plastering your finale with a message overloaded with a sense of victimhood, in all its shades and colours. I guess the best advice on that one would be: Grow up!

Regards.

BBC Admits to Using Fake Photo in Iran Election Coverage

Look at these LINKS:

http://www.chartingstocks.net/2009/06/bbc-admits-to-using-fake-photo-iniranelection-coverage/

This other story is even more interesting, to do with this whole tweeter business:

http://www.chartingstocks.net/2009/06/jpost-removes-the-evidence-and-issues-a-response-iranelection/

Long live the Rahbar!

The plots of the enemies will always fail.

KhudaYa khudaya ta inqalabi Mehdi(a.s) Khamnaie reh nigehbaan az umri ma bila ho dar umri ho bi Afza

Iran are setting example for all Muslims, Sunni or Shia, freedom and election is part of our great religion. Election was done, if there is a dispute is should be solved by courts not by riots. The government also should be responsible for it's actions, who ever should that girl "Neda" should be put on trial.
Our religion needs some modernization, we need a panel of Ayotallahs Shiekhs to consolidate the differences & move to the 21 century, women rights & individual freedoms already exist in our religion; we only need to translate it to the 21 century.
This may be a wake up call for Iran, I hope all the middle east one day will become union like European union Iran can lead if they can modernize.

A Speech that destroyed the enemies!

Real Man of Wisdom do not require Scripts to address the world.

Alas, something the West has a lot to learn about.

All good. However, A. Khamenei should leave the country to the politiciansand lead his followers more on the spiritual side. Meddling in the poltical matters will bring only negatives for him and he will lose a lot on respect in the overall Shia Community. A.Seestani has understood that and he maintains his posture very well. Even A.Khamenei must be knowing that A.Seestani enjoys more respects than him.

Syed Hussain Akbari, it would be nice to save your advice for your ilk. Rather, since you mention Ayatollah Seestani, know that he has nothing but reverence for the Islamic Republic and its leader - which he has mentioned repeatedly.

its a shame how ppl can act wise when they propagate the word of secularists in the name of Islam.

Islam does not separate between politics and religion. for those who want to dance to the bastions of secularism in their promised heaven of unfettered humanism, do it for yourself.

but do not expect even the foot soldiers in this great Ummah of Muhammad (s) and Ali (a) to accept that garbage, let alone our noble leaders.

Religion must be separate from government or you end up with country like Saudia Arabia, religion has a great role in the life of nations, but should have only very limited authority. laws should be based on the spirit of Islam not controlled by Mullah or shaikhs unless they are elected. Country is for all; not just Muslims. Our great prophet (Salwat) was very successful; he was able to create an empire; he lived in his times & I do believe our religion gave us the flexibility to adopt to all times.
Those who want blind control & enslave the nation using the religion will not be flexible. History do not treat kindly civilization that refuses to live up to their time, they fade very fast. Let us not make this mistake.
Our great prophet tried every thing to spread the message when peaceful means did not work; he found the way to make it work for every occasion he found the solution & he never was afraid to change direction when needed.

So dal, you would have us believe that the Prophet (saws) - under the pretense of flexibility - would have us live under a secular government?

I think you've enlightened us enough.

You are putting names on it, we are all Mulsims live in Muslim countries, we must modernize, let those who are qualified to become rulers or government employees (Key word is qualified) do their job to move this nation forward in every aspect (religion, science, industry etc. we need to catch up with the industrial revolution) . Although religion is very important; leaders do not have to be religious figures. How could we move forward if some back ward person says that women (half the nation) has no role?
Yes I do believe that if the prophet see our situation now; he would not be happy that we try to adhere to outdated man made rules & forgotten about the spirit of his message. Can we have the courage & the strong believe to modernize?

Thank you for treating us to your vision of Islam, but no thanks. We'll leave it to the readers to make their own minds up.

But I should add here, in case you haven't noticed, Iran under the Islamic Republic has risen to become the hub of technological advancement throughout not only the Middle East, but it surpasses many Western states. The above does say a lot about your misplaced views on the 'industrial revolution' and how Islam looks upon technological advancement.

DAL YOU HAVE SAID:How can we move forward if women forward persons says that women has no role?
TO YOU I RESPOND:

You seem to have a shallow view of women. Women are an intergrated part of society no matter where you live. Women too represent a struggle and just like there counterparts have achieved alot. The only real difference perhaps that sets them apart is motherhood. After all it is the women who has to give birth and because of this unique trait she posses qualties that you are not aware of that enables her to bring up her family. The role a women plays in any society can be viewed either one where she is valued or one where she is looked upon as an object. I leave it to you to decide on how you see the women in your society.

Lastly, as for the outstanding contribution women have made I like to list a few from Iran.They have had an elected vice president who was a female, 10 % of the judges in the country are females, and they also represent the police force. Futhermore, there is not a part of the society where they have not contributed . After, the Islamic revolution women have given the country srtrenght and solace.

^ It is so ridiculous to suggest that Iranian 'clerics' suggest women have no role in Iranian society that it really questions what planet dal lives on. Iran has had a female Vice President for heaven's sake!

Dal, you should really stop watching Fox News or wherever it is you get your news from!

It is so nice to see proud Muslim brothers, I can understand & I do applaud your feeling about your great country of Iran. I do follow the news including fox news; I know some of the news are fabricated by the Zionist to brain wash Americans. The Middle East has it's more that it's share of dictators who deceived the people, faked modernization & brought disaster to the nation, if Iran is to become a face for the free Muslim countries if can not deprive women of rights, as any one seen a lot of women were in the demonstration, women must have the right to vote, work & perform any duties that they are capable of doing as good as any man. Islam respects women & women issues. putting a woman in a black tent makes her an object & not a person. On the other hand if a woman choose to wear it then it's her choice. We must respect Freedoms & laws; without it civilizations can not continue. In my opinion modernization in all levels is a must to succeed. It may take time & adjustment but it is the best choice.
I fear that the Zionist are trying every way to destroy the Muslim Iran. We should not give them a chance.

Dal, you are professional 'Joker', which Cosmos have you just landed from?

"Women must have the right to vote" - didn't you see millions of them at the polling stations???, or did you think that the 40 Million who did vote were "all male"?????LOOOOOOOOOOOOOL....

"work & perform any duties that they are capable of doing as good as any man" - THERE ARE MORE FEMALES IN UNIVERSITIES IN IRAN THEN THERE ARE MALES - I wonder if the same can be said of the rest of the World......do some research, you might be surprised.

"putting a woman in a black tent makes her an object & not a person" - Please tell me what you are using .........hey, go and walk around the city in the West - and a have a look at the Billboards around you, everywhere....on the buses, trains, adverts .......it makes a good showing for how much the "Cultured West respects Women" - even better, try this one - next time you are fuelling up in a gas station, just have a quick look at the news/magazine section - please do not share your discoveries with us here though.......

In your world - being FREE is defined as being a SLAVE of your PASSIONS.....Good luck with your liberalism......see the monstrous society it will give birth to in the next 20 years.

You need serious help, brov

Joker, I do respect your opinions, your are certainly entitled to speak your mind & every one else should have the same rights.
It seems to me women is looked upon as a woman first then a human. I do understand it. I have lived in the US for 30 years yet I still catch myself thinking this way too. In the middle east culture it seems that all good manners are about sex only. We forget all other good manners. We must be able to criticize ourselves to improve & move forward. When a woman walk next to me I am not a slave to my passions, people behave this way only when they have severe deprivations like in the middle east. I am in no way saying the western culture is better or we are better. The western culture has a lot of good things to learn from & to mold to fit in the middle east culture. They do have many bad things too that we should avoid.
Iran moved forward in many ways, they should keep the momentum, be strong enough to stand self examination ability to change.
Must be very careful as the Zionist are planning next attack and I am afraid it will not be words only.

dal, you're quite adept at playing with words. With you logical reasoning comes with great difficulty and I appreciate that.

Let me remind you again: you cannot begin with a premise saying that "women in Iran are oppressed", and then proceed to build the promised land of Babylon on top of that premise, without first providing evidence for it.

If you have insecurities about women and their role in society (beneath all the flowery curtains of words), that's something for you to deal with.

DAL you stated women is looked upon as a women first than a human.

Thank the media for that one which has feed the public with images of women which turn them into objects. By the way most of these outlets are controlled by men who's only real motive is well money.And on this matter the Islamic view is that a human being's essence is priceless and cannot be trivialized by the market place or turned into a cheap trinket for just anyone's lust and pleasure.

FEAR NOT IRAN

"Man indeed is limited and confined entity which strives to do away shortcomings and hence concentrates its efforts toward achieving this objective . However this concept is meaningless with respect to an Entity that is unlimited and infinite,and hence we ought to seek the objective and purpose of His acts in entities other than Him.He is an abudant overflowing spring and the bounty-creating Originator who,having taken the entire creation within the canopy of His support, nourishes and fosters them, leading them from imperfection towards perfection.This is the actual purpose of our servitude (towards Allah) and this is the philosophy of our worship and prayers,which are indeed training classes for leading towards perfection".

DAL,

Please make your pronounciations with a bit more clarity, at the moment, you seem to be dynamically jumping from one extreme to another.

One of the previous commentators, taz, seems to have defined your position most aptly.

I think, you have a problem with 'information'.

You seem to be confusing the status if women in the middle east with that of women in Iran. Please research a bit more, you have based an opinion on sweeping generalisations. Add to this the overall position of women in 'Islam'. There isnt another religion in the history of humanity that is as clear and which holds/protects the station/sanctity of women more than Islam.

On thing is true I never been to Iran, i am from Palestine, I was talking about women in the Middle East in general, I know I have no right to criticize, I was just making observation & hoping a great Muslim country like Iran will lead all of the Middle East into the 21 Century by being the example for all. You can not deny that the last incidents show some unrest although it may be in a small part of the population but it exists, I do agree that Islam has given so many rights to women & on the prophet time it was revolutionary, we must adopt to our times & move forward. Our great religion gives the tools to interpret for today's time, we need enlightened Ayatallah or Shiek to bring us to the 21 Century but with respect to our culture & religion.
I fear for Iran as the Zionist are planning to do harm.

Brothers/Sisters,
The above opinion expressed by Dal came from her understanding, and she expressed it with respect and regards. I wish brothers would kindly infomed her about women right in islam and iran. Also her view about modernization need to be more enlighten.